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User talk:Ornery
Welcome Hi, welcome to ! Thanks for your edit to the Talk:WildStarWiki:Editing policy page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! Kim-ChaosReborn (talk) 02:24, April 8, 2014 (UTC) Ability tables See here for examples: User:Ornery/Sandbox/Ability_tables Telegraph Templates See here for examples of the telegraph templates I've been working on: User:Ornery/Sandbox/Telegraphs Damage Healing Buff Debuff ended up wanting sortable columns for these, so i've colour coded them as follows Updates Wanted to direct everyone here so we're all on the same page ;) Raylan13 (talk) 00:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC) Attributing Heya Ornerycat! Just wanted to drop in and talk to you about Attributes. I set up this table to explain what each stat means to each class type and such, but wanted to get some input how best to carry it forward from there. I was thinking I could do a header for each stat, but I'm not sure overall the best way to explain some of the inner workings without knowing that each stat gets the same benefit or not. What'chu think?Tnargraef (talk) 03:25, April 22, 2014 (UTC) I think we need a new colour scheme :D Start from Assault Power = Red, Support Power = Green, and go from there. But what colour is a crit? What colour is defense? Puzzling. Anyway, on the more substantive issues, I think you need to have a heading for the effects, not the stats. That is, Assault Power is probably always calculated the same way regardless of what stat it is based on - meanwhile Brutality is used differently in calculations based on the effect it is having. Get what I mean? Maybe we should be looking at the table the other way around, like http://i.imgur.com/GPFQ5hB.png Nice thing is that we can icon the stats too, since we have standard stat icons Ornery (talk) 03:48, April 22, 2014 (UTC) Also totes figured out the colour scheme while doing that - Assault is red, Crit/Severity is orange, Strike/Severity is yellow. Support is light green, Deflect/Crit is dark green, health is blue Ornery (talk) 03:51, April 22, 2014 (UTC) :Okay looks good! I shall take a poke at it in that direction. Are the stat Calcs really the same between classes? Cause that's awesome! Tnargraef (talk) 04:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC) :I have no fricking idea, but it would make sense. I'll do some research. Also, i tried to play with colours and accidentally killed a colourblind guy: User:Ornery/Sandbox/Attribute_Tables Ornery (talk) 04:18, April 22, 2014 (UTC) OK, the numbers here are probably out of date, but the variations are probably not too different. http://au.ign.com/wikis/wildstar/Attributes#Primary_Attributes_for_Each_Class It implies that the secondary calcs are consistent, but there's a split between the classes on how assault and support are calculated. Looks like Tanking classes get 0.37 Support per stat, while Healing classes get 0.50 Support per stat. Looks Heavy Armor gets 0.37 Assault per Stat, Medium Armor gets 0.50 per Stat, and Light Armor gets 0.61 per Stat. Will dig through patch notes for more info on latest calcs. Ornery (talk) 04:23, April 22, 2014 (UTC) Ok not sure if the ingame tooltips haven't been updated yet, or if the patch note change is to the EFFECTS of AP&SP, not the calculation of them. Either way, for now lets stick with the tooltip calcs for the wiki. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pXs0dn_74PRFbXpKv7VZh4WECYY8vtE7wWPS6U_Peys Ornery (talk) 06:16, April 22, 2014 (UTC) Character Infobox So since that attributes page got a bunch of data, I decided to make a user infobox today. The purpose of this to be a user display on their user pages. You can look at the coding User:Tnargraef/Sandbox/User Character and my page has the first preview on it. Tell me what you think! Tnargraef (talk) 05:24, April 23, 2014 (UTC) Which characters is it for? NPCs? Or are we opening up the chance for players to have their own pages on the site? Cause that sounds...ambitious Ornery (talk) 06:31, April 23, 2014 (UTC) : I think he intends this to be used for wiki user's own characters, as opposed strictly to the official game data or lore neutral ones, so would be kind of like the NPCs basically. Normally would call a 'Player character', because is not just necessarily for user pages or lore, and often is embodiment of someones actual in game character. People can use the NPC boxes as well for lore or their won stories, but wouldn't really have game player character type data. I made character page last week think as well which is related and a link could be added there, and is also a missing guide and policy page that not been remodeled yet. It would be good to give them most of the facilities as the NPC template, thus getting all the neat things just like the fancy NPC templates. Celess (talk) 06:40, April 23, 2014 (UTC) Celess is correct. Just think how people like to decorate their user pages. This is just a simple tool to help make it clean. Tnargraef (talk) 06:55, April 23, 2014 (UTC) Gotcha. In that case chuck in an 80-100px thumb at the top as well for their user image (so we can see their choices in moustache). Otherwise, looks fine 'til someone asks for something else. Ornery (talk) 07:09, April 23, 2014 (UTC) Ability tables redux I think the top table works better for sorting purposes, but we need a click or hover to say what each column is.Tnargraef (talk) 07:45, April 23, 2014 (UTC) Guild herding Message my chat :) Celess (talk) 17:34, April 23, 2014 (UTC) Class Ability Icons Heya ;) Just wanted to let you know I got all the class ability icons from Carbine. I know we've got most f them up and running, but wanted to replace all of them with the "official" files - the end result is that everything will have standard size, quality, and naming convention. Wanted to give you a heads-up about it all the same! Raylan13 (talk) 19:18, April 23, 2014 (UTC) :I will get them all into the Icon photos cat and then separate them from there as I get the chance. Tnargraef (talk) 01:01, April 24, 2014 (UTC) Wahoo! That's fantastic. The ones we'd scraped from elsewhere were only 40px, which was frankly rubbish. Any chance you could get the official telegraph sizes of abilities from CRB for me too? :D 19:58, April 23, 2014 (UTC) : Whatever names they gave you, try to keep them exactly the same, assuming they are same as game asset names. Will make huge difference later in ways hard to explain in small space. :) Also log in... :) Celess (talk) 20:06, April 23, 2014 (UTC) Don't worry too much about deleting the older icons for now. That's something we'll go and review once all the change overs are complete. As for the telegraphs, I thought you'd created them, so was pretty happy with their quality :P I made the telegraph images we've got, but I'm (guessing) estimating the width of the shapes based on playing with them in game. We know the length usually, because it's either the range or the "x foes within xm" distance for the radius of circles, but the width of cones and columns is all guesstimated. Would be good to find a reliable source for that info. Ornery (talk) 00:41, April 24, 2014 (UTC) Infobox parameters for Tooltips :Just another note: be aware of amounts that scale when doing ability pages. We're putting those as "x" rather than what's shown on the tooltip. This is because there's going to be loads and loads of changes down the line with patches and expansions, and people generally slowly stop wanting to update those values. Raylan13 (talk) 20:13, April 23, 2014 (UTC) We haven't put any scaling amounts into abilities that I've seen - only the scaling factors. Where it says x%+x, that's the (x% of a stat, plus x) per level that causes the scaling. We should only be updating those formulas when patches affect ability stats, and... big ability patches generally only happen twice a year. I don't see it as a big ask to keep it updated. If we just have everything as x, it is impossible to tell relative power of the different abilities. Basically makes the whole infobox worthless, from a player perspective. Ornery (talk) 20:16, April 23, 2014 (UTC) I'd suggest we categorise damage by type, but then we'd end up with a million fields once we covered all the ticks and multitaps and bonus effects that abilities have. Straight text entry is easier, but we should probably be templating the colour that denotes the stat used. http://ws-base.com/builds/generator/engineer is not a bad model. Ornery (talk) 20:18, April 23, 2014 (UTC) I wouldn't be opposed to building the infoboxes to source from a central table for the desc,up,up4,up8 at least of each ability. That would make updates wayyyy swifter. Ornery (talk) 20:19, April 23, 2014 (UTC) Can we compromise with a visible update date in the lower section of the ability box? That way people can tell if the info is deprecated, while we still maintain the usefulness of damage data for as long as we can keep it up. Date rather than build as it's tricky to know build dates from the distant past. Ornery (talk) 20:21, April 23, 2014 (UTC) : The infoboxes are used for tooltips, which must represent the game tooltip *verbatim* for those fields. Some values are not capable of being written verbatim because they change. Those fields were decided will have an X, which is not an unprecedented documentation construct, even with wikis. However.... this does not mean that other fields could not be added to the infobox or elsewhere in talbes or whatever, that are not participating the in verbatim tooltip. Those could still be documented in some other way. Celess (talk) 20:34, April 23, 2014 (UTC) Which makes perfect sense if you are playing a game where the calculation of the ingame damage is opaque. But we're not - wildstar tells us the way that the damage is calculated, so we can refer to the percentage of a stat that is contributed to the ingame damage, and that allows a character and level neutral way of comparing abilities. ie, a perfectly neutral way to talk about them on a platform which is meant to be neutral. The only argument against it that I've seen is raylan saying people might not update them in the future when they change. Which could be said of pretty much everything on the wiki. Seems a bit defeatist to not even try at this point. 20:46, April 23, 2014 (UTC) : Even if Raylan and I were wrong and is more of a sensibilities issue, these still need to added in a way that is consistent and that regular people can update especially without thought. The game tooltip currently is opaque, and the design of the template and instructions flow that way. This is true across all of the templates, where are instructions or will be that explain how to copy form game and DB. Celess (talk) 21:06, April 23, 2014 (UTC) Completely agree that the templates need work. That doesn't mean we should throw away all the information that is currently in them by overwriting it with x's. Ornery (talk) 21:18, April 23, 2014 (UTC) : You saw Raylan waaay back adding Xs. I understand fighting for a kind of data or paradigm, but you are fighting in the wrong spot. Because they aren't all Xs yet, I cant spend the time to find ways to give that an outlet. My statements above are about people editing the information pages, not the templates. Celess (talk) 21:27, April 23, 2014 (UTC) I'm arguing now because Raylan is still changing them to x's. Not way back, in the last day. But if you're going to argue a point of policy based on other games over usefulness of the wiki to players of wildstar, then I'm not sure where to go from here. Ornery (talk) 21:39, April 23, 2014 (UTC) : I don't think I've mentioned once here about other games. I'm pretty sure this has come up before where you were present. I don't think anyone is trying to put their sensibilities or policy above player's usefulness. We are representing what Carbine chose to put in the game, and really that's all. This entire conversation is almost entirely about one field on one template. And I understand, I do. But this just needs to come to a head. It's time. Celess (talk) 21:49, April 23, 2014 (UTC)